Curse

YunSooJin · Nov 14, 2006, 11:42 AM // 11:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by justadude

No, my friend, you called a great many things in guild wars tedious, not challenging. You were the one who said most of the game is tedious, I was merely expanding on your 'definition' of challenge in Guild Wars. You must be really bored by how easy Guild Wars is. It's Glint and Shiro for you right? How wait Shiro is easy and I shouldnt be complaining...

I keep bringing up the thing in the waterworks saying that it was 'easy' compared to Shiro. I am in total agreement that it was a joke. I mean change the damage type... no challenge involved in coordinating that attack... rather tedious setting everyone up dont you agree?

No offense, but quite assuming stuff. It is player skill. If I where a better player then I would not be having this problem. I dont consider myself to be a bad player having gone and done some of the more 'tedious' (please read your post again to see that it was you who said most things in guild Wars are not hard, but 'tedious).

You finished the mission and seem unable to fathom that it could be hard for others so you patronize those that are having trouble by saying that we got the 'hard' version of the game. You and your 'Shiro is easy' buddies seem unable to fathom that there are those who have hit a wall on this one. Best of all is that you stand by your point that its easy.

So tell me, what do you find challenging in Guild Wars?

I dont think he's patronizing anyone, actually. The reality is that most people do not want to face the facts that some people are better at a game than others. If they do, they don't want to be compared to it. He obviously doesn't want to start playing catch the flame with anyone on these forums who might be particularly sensitive, so he threw out some comments loaded with sarcasm - something you decided to take literally and call patronism instead.

Play against Shiro right, and he's not that hard. Impossible Odds is scary, sure, but if you really are spending 30+ minutes per try and XX hours trying to finish this mission, you should look inward for the problems, not at the game.

semantic · Nov 14, 2006, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Shiro is a cupcake without Meditation of the Reaper and Banishment. He's still got some good skills, but seriously. Maybe if he spawned some backup Ride the Lightning drakes or something when he got into trouble, there'd be an issue.

No Spoil Victor, no Spiteful Spirit, not even Prot Spirit. Hell, not even the obivous Paragon skill Angelic Protection (which would probably actually heal the tank during IO).

Cake. In a cup.

justadude · Nov 14, 2006, 12:06 PM // 12:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I dont think he's patronizing anyone, actually. The reality is that most people do not want to face the facts that some people are better at a game than others. If they do, they don't want to be compared to it. He obviously doesn't want to start playing catch the flame with anyone on these forums who might be particularly sensitive, so he threw out some comments loaded with sarcasm - something you decided to take literally and call patronism instead.

Play against Shiro right, and he's not that hard. Impossible Odds is scary, sure, but if you really are spending 30+ minutes per try and XX hours trying to finish this mission, you should look inward for the problems, not at the game.

Dude, did you even read the post? I have faced the facts and am quite okay with them. I met many players who are better than I am and have been grateful for the lessons imparted. I believe I wrote somthing to that effect in the post you quoted. I believe my inwardness is quite okay, thank you.

But lets quit beating around the bush, why dont you help me get through the mission? If Shiro is not that hard I am sure you can get me through. My ign is Persephone Balu.

Ps. I will still think Shiro is way to hard, but I will give you kudos for getting me through and being a good player (I really mean that). Come on put your money where your mouth is.

Antheus · Nov 14, 2006, 12:23 PM // 12:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

Play against Shiro right, and he's not that hard. Impossible Odds is scary, sure, but if you really are spending 30+ minutes per try and XX hours trying to finish this mission, you should look inward for the problems, not at the game.

It's not just one person's problem, the mission is annoying.

First, the overabundance of D and P in that mission makes it hard to get a balanced PUG. This mission is made considerably easier if you have one single tank.

Getting to end-part is also annoying, since last part is all vs. one, while during the mission you face typical masses of mobs.

Lightbringer makes going there a lot easier, but many don't have it.

People tend to wipe at portals, since they don't realize how hard chain lightning spike can hit.

Most don't realize that it's better to do bonus. During that, you must not harm Shiro and he won't use IO. Still, some people find it necessary to keep getting his health down, causing more damage than necessary.

Too many monks forget what all out protection means. Shield of Absorption in combination with Life Sheath and Protective Spirit were all made for a reason. But only two WoH healers will make that mission really hard, since they simply can't heal enough. Aegis obviously works as well, as do wards and similar skills.

Spoil Victor, Empathy, weakness, blind, Insidious Parasite, any other anti-melee skill work. Yet, Shiro has unlisted ability to lose hexes. Either IO or Battle Scars will remove one or all hexes (not sure which).

Patrols are pretty annoying on the way there as well, if you engage mobs without pulling them away, you will quickly and almost certainly double-agro.

Many also don't realize that margonite patrols respawn, so they keep on killing them, wasting time and energy, risking a wipe because of accidental over-agro.

When all of this is put together, you do get a really annoying mission. When played right, it is indeed challenging. But it can easily become frustrating. Real people, who even remotely know the issues will be infinitely better than any hero or henchie.

But put a team that knows what they are doing, and the mission becomes a done deal.

aohige · Nov 14, 2006, 12:50 PM // 12:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

It's not just one person's problem, the mission is annoying.

First, the overabundance of D and P in that mission makes it hard to get a balanced PUG. This mission is made considerably easier if you have one single tank.

If you can't get a balanced PUG, then get a balanced Hero/Hench team and solo it. It's actually easier that way, as long as you know what you're doing.

Alas, apparantly, the game is filled with people who have no idea how to play the game, and I'm surprised so many of them actually got this far.
Once in a while, rather than relying on others to get you there, perhaps some people should learn to play on their own, to get better understanding of the game.

Antheus · Nov 14, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by aohige

If you can't get a balanced PUG, then get a balanced Hero/Hench team and solo it. It's actually easier that way, as long as you know what you're doing.

Alas, apparantly, the game is filled with people who have no idea how to play the game, and I'm surprised so many of them actually got this far.
Once in a while, rather than relying on others to get you there, perhaps some people should learn to play on their own, to get better understanding of the game.

Exactly. People are people. Some are good players, some not so good. Some understand how skills work, some have the necessary ones, some don't.

/learn2play is a dangerous argument. It's extremly easy to design a mission in such a way, that only select dozen will pass it. But such missions prove to be cumbersome or impossible for majority.

Just like elite missions rely on specific classes, skills and strategies, they can be considered easy by experienced players. But reality is, majority of players aren't.

And this takes into consideration the fact that many players there don't know what a balanced team is or how to make one, they don't have the patience, they lack skill unlocks or similar. Soloing with heroes is in many cases impossible, since controlling AI efficiently is even harder than playing with people.

This particular mission isn't a test of superiority, it's just a part of primary mission path. The real question here is, is the mission too demanding for this purpose, especially considering other missions before are a whole factor easier and can, for most part, be overcome with brute force.

justadude · Nov 14, 2006, 02:45 PM // 14:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

It's not just one person's problem, the mission is annoying.

But put a team that knows what they are doing, and the mission becomes a done deal.

Two good points. There are many people stuck on this mission. Especially Melee types. This to me is poor mission and game design, but can be corrected. This leads to the second point not being a reality for many. Yes, one could hero/hench it, but a good group that communicates, pickup or guild, is still better than hero/hench. But those are hard to find in this mission.

I am sure when spamming 'sv nerco lfg' I will find many groups and get through, but Dervish are not wanted due to the design of this mission.

I must say I really appricieated your response. I was not the typical 'What you cant hench it? You suck' response. There was at least empathy for the problems faced by many in this mission.

justadude · Nov 14, 2006, 02:47 PM // 14:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Exactly. People are people. Some are good players, some not so good. Some understand how skills work, some have the necessary ones, some don't.

/learn2play is a dangerous argument. It's extremly easy to design a mission in such a way, that only select dozen will pass it. But such missions prove to be cumbersome or impossible for majority.

Just like elite missions rely on specific classes, skills and strategies, they can be considered easy by experienced players. But reality is, majority of players aren't.

And this takes into consideration the fact that many players there don't know what a balanced team is or how to make one, they don't have the patience, they lack skill unlocks or similar. Soloing with heroes is in many cases impossible, since controlling AI efficiently is even harder than playing with people.

This particular mission isn't a test of superiority, it's just a part of primary mission path. The real question here is, is the mission too demanding for this purpose, especially considering other missions before are a whole factor easier and can, for most part, be overcome with brute force.

That was really well said. Eloquent and true to fact.

YunSooJin · Nov 14, 2006, 03:40 PM // 15:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by justadude

But lets quit beating around the bush, why dont you help me get through the mission? If Shiro is not that hard I am sure you can get me through. My ign is Persephone Balu.

Ps. I will still think Shiro is way to hard, but I will give you kudos for getting me through and being a good player (I really mean that). Come on put your money where your mouth is.

I'm the kind of terrible person that won't even help people in my gvg guild. I've done enough PvE that I am honestly not willing to do more than I absolutely must (absolutely must mostly referring to selfish goals only). The only exceptions to this rule is a few personal friends that always help me (that have help worth offering) and I do in return. So - no offense, but I'll pass on this one.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

It's not just one person's problem, the mission is annoying.

First, the overabundance of D and P in that mission makes it hard to get a balanced PUG. This mission is made considerably easier if you have one single tank.

Getting to end-part is also annoying, since last part is all vs. one, while during the mission you face typical masses of mobs.

Lightbringer makes going there a lot easier, but many don't have it.

People tend to wipe at portals, since they don't realize how hard chain lightning spike can hit.

Most don't realize that it's better to do bonus. During that, you must not harm Shiro and he won't use IO. Still, some people find it necessary to keep getting his health down, causing more damage than necessary.

Too many monks forget what all out protection means. Shield of Absorption in combination with Life Sheath and Protective Spirit were all made for a reason. But only two WoH healers will make that mission really hard, since they simply can't heal enough. Aegis obviously works as well, as do wards and similar skills.

Spoil Victor, Empathy, weakness, blind, Insidious Parasite, any other anti-melee skill work. Yet, Shiro has unlisted ability to lose hexes. Either IO or Battle Scars will remove one or all hexes (not sure which).

Patrols are pretty annoying on the way there as well, if you engage mobs without pulling them away, you will quickly and almost certainly double-agro.

Many also don't realize that margonite patrols respawn, so they keep on killing them, wasting time and energy, risking a wipe because of accidental over-agro.

When all of this is put together, you do get a really annoying mission. When played right, it is indeed challenging. But it can easily become frustrating. Real people, who even remotely know the issues will be infinitely better than any hero or henchie.

But put a team that knows what they are doing, and the mission becomes a done deal.

A friend and I did this mission together when NF came out. We wiped the first time versus Shiro. We also managed to fight all the patrols on the way, and deal with two waves of Shiro'Ken. We also didn't realize the patrols at the portals and had to deal with some unnecessary/unplanned aggro while killing monsters at the portals.

The second time was a different story. We sat down, talked about our build a little build, made small adjustments (curse necro + spoil victor, anyone?) and went back in. We skipped all the unnecessary patrols, killed only 1 wave of Shiro'Ken and just ninja'd our way through, and rolled the portal wraiths. We faced Shiro + Lich - killed the Lich, grabbed the bonus, then rolled Shiro's face. I don't honestly know how else to put it. We made sure Shiro was on me (I was tanking) and let the henchies go wild.

My friend was a monk. I was a warrior. More to the point, I didnt have any defensive stances, only d-blow and wild blow. I believe the entire mission took us..15 minutes?

There's already people in this thread saying they charge for runs through this mission. If someone has simplified the mission to this level, then people are seriously doing something wrong.

Also, in regards to the argument that this mission is too hard for the majority - good, finally something is difficult for people. What makes PvE players stupid and stay stupid, is when the environment doesn't let them know that running R/Mo with orison is a Bad Idea. I think it's lamentable that most missions can be simply played through by 'brute force'. Just like THK, which was considered way too hard previously, there should be missions that encourage players to reconsider what they're doing.

I don't think finishing a mission is an entitlement to players, it should be earned. It's weak that people start crying nerfbat as soon as they think something is too difficult.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

/learn2play is a dangerous argument. It's extremly easy to design a mission in such a way, that only select dozen will pass it. But such missions prove to be cumbersome or impossible for majority.

The funny thing is, the mission is not actually difficult. If those portal wraiths are so much trouble, bring some interrupts (seriously, Margrid will pwn their face. Every single freakin time). Can't get the aggro from portal wraiths to be clean? Station your henchies back and use a longbow. I mean seriously why is this so difficult? It's blindingly obvious that you can just hug walls and avoid patrols. It doesn't take new skills or uberleet heroes to see this. When the Shiro'Ken come, they spawn in front of you and behind you, in predictable time intervals. So why not just kill the group in front of you and RUN through? Are people really suggesting that this is too hard for humans to do? Aren't we all born with a basic capability to reason and think for ourselves, or is that not even a requirement anymore?

Honestly, with all the disparaging comments about warriors/wammos in general on these forums, you'd think people would want to distance themselves by learning to play slightly differently - something that didn't require mostly brute strength and the ability for them to spam their spells. Well here's your chance people, please take it for your own self enrichment.

Jeremy Untouchable · Nov 14, 2006, 04:22 PM // 16:22

Ok, I may not be the best player ever. but i am in top form at the moment haveing tanked all thro this entire game up untill this point. Sure i had to redo a couple missions here and there. (moduckduckgoose crevice) but the entire game was well balenced up untill this point. In fact, the mission its self is just fine. sure double agro and party wipes are common. but its just fine. Whats NOT fine is not being able to kill a boss at the end of a mission for 4 days in a row. I spent 5 hours last night trying to beat this guy. I could write a freaking book on patrols and there paterns and spawn points. i know every popup and trick on the way to to the boss. I have used full 8 man groups, 4 poeple the rest heros.....its has been the most unfun mission ever. Dont get me wrong i enjoy a chalenge, but this shiro is 10 times the boss he was in factions. and it just isnt right............/endrant................................./begin rant.....................also the couple of people in my guild/alliance say that it was far easyer the first time they went thro, in fact the one guy who beat it before in our guild hasnt been able to beat it with us agian. shiro behaves differntly now then before....So all you people saying that it wasnt hard, or you breezed right thro....Go try it now...........if you still think its such a breeze i guess i should be playing checkers or party poker...........grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr rrrrrrrrrrr................./pounds head on table.....OUT

darktyco · Nov 14, 2006, 04:46 PM // 16:46

I'm a new GW player, NF is the first campaign I have ever played. So far I have worked through the game getting masters in all the previous missions with my N/Me. However, people aren't letting me into groups for this mission because I don't have either SV or SS. Can those skills be found anywhere Nightfall? I tried looking them up on the wiki but couldn't find anything.

In the meantime I'm just going to try to go at this one with heroes, I got to the portals last time I tried but I was standing in the middle of the area when the portals opened up and got owned on all sides.

Antheus · Nov 14, 2006, 04:50 PM // 16:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

The funny thing is, the mission is not actually difficult. If those portal wraiths are so much trouble, bring some interrupts (seriously, Margrid will pwn their face. Every single freakin time). Can't get the aggro from portal wraiths to be clean? Station your henchies back and use a longbow. I mean seriously why is this so difficult? It's blindingly obvious that you can just hug walls and avoid patrols. It doesn't take new skills or uberleet heroes to see this. When the Shiro'Ken come, they spawn in front of you and behind you, in predictable time intervals. So why not just kill the group in front of you and RUN through? Are people really suggesting that this is too hard for humans to do? Aren't we all born with a basic capability to reason and think for ourselves, or is that not even a requirement anymore?

Yes, it is too hard to do.

How many understand the difference between longbox and shortbow?
What is hugging the wall?
What is agro circle?
What is chain lightning and why does it wipe my team?
How do interrupts work, how often, how many targets? How will you know that if you never played a ranger?
Why do Shiroken hurt so much?
How far back do you position heros?
When and how will Shiroken spawn?

You just listed so many tactics and strategies that it takes a very experienced player to put this into practice.

And yet, many such players are stuck at this mission. Some are new players, who just bought Nightfall as their first GW game. Some never played rangers, elementalists or necros. For many, warrior and dervish are the only classes they ever played or will play, not even looking at other classes' skills. Some never played Factions and encountered Shiroken elementalists before. Or finished Prophecies to encouter titans or wraiths.

This is what it comes down to. Skills and mechanics are same for all, but experiences vary greatly. And this, is what your team members will be.

This isn't about whether mechanics are wrong, or mission design is wrong. It's about the fact that people perceive this mission as unfun and frustrating. Just like they did THK, and perhaps a few others.

Shanaeri Rynale · Nov 14, 2006, 05:09 PM // 17:09

Quote:

This isn't about whether mechanics are wrong, or mission design is wrong. It's about the fact that people perceive this mission as unfun and frustrating. Just like they did THK, and perhaps a few others.

Exactly. Every chapter has it's terror missions, Ch1 had THK, Ch2 had Vizunah and Raisu. Ch3 Has this and maybe Jenur's Hoarde

It's not a new thing. In fact it's got better I think. People got stuck for days in THK when Ch1 was new. I love the fact there are these terror missions, in some ways I kinda wish there were more.

Antheus · Nov 14, 2006, 05:33 PM // 17:33

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shanaeri Rynale

I love the fact there are these terror missions, in some ways I kinda wish there were more.

Surprisingly, this would be a good thing, that would lead to no terror missions.

Shiro and Lich are so "difficult", because they are exact opposite of anything encountered before.

The only design problem with the mission is, that the game doesn't prepare you for it. The strategies for defeating it were listed many times. Yet all those strategies are completely optional in previous missions.

In factions, the players at least experienced sliver armor, which is very similar in effect to IO spike. The only place in NF where I encountered such spikes (apart from half dozen bowmen) is Shiro.

If there were bosses with similar skills on previous missions, this mission would seem much simpler to many.

Rera · Nov 14, 2006, 05:36 PM // 17:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by justadude

No, my friend, you called a great many things in guild wars tedious, not challenging. You were the one who said most of the game is tedious, I was merely expanding on your 'definition' of challenge in Guild Wars. You must be really bored by how easy Guild Wars is. It's Glint and Shiro for you right? How wait Shiro is easy and I shouldnt be complaining...

Glint is a joke.

You specifically stated that the challenge of Guild Wars is to withstand tedium. Regardless of whether you were expanding on my definition, if this is what you think then it isn't really a game anymore - it's a chore.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justadude

I keep bringing up the thing in the waterworks saying that it was 'easy' compared to Shiro. I am in total agreement that it was a joke. I mean change the damage type... no challenge involved in coordinating that attack... rather tedious setting everyone up dont you agree?

My point is that, if the Drought is so easy, why bother comparing anything to it? It's like saying, "Hell's Precipice is hard because Pre-Searing is easier!"

Quote:

Originally Posted by justadude

No offense, but quite assuming stuff. It is player skill. If I where a better player then I would not be having this problem. I dont consider myself to be a bad player having gone and done some of the more 'tedious' (please read your post again to see that it was you who said most things in guild Wars are not hard, but 'tedious).

You finished the mission and seem unable to fathom that it could be hard for others so you patronize those that are having trouble by saying that we got the 'hard' version of the game. You and your 'Shiro is easy' buddies seem unable to fathom that there are those who have hit a wall on this one. Best of all is that you stand by your point that its easy.

I guess I forgot the /sarcasm tag in that post. My bad.

Quote:

Originally Posted by justadude

So tell me, what do you find challenging in Guild Wars?

GvG.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

/learn2play is a dangerous argument. It's extremly easy to design a mission in such a way, that only select dozen will pass it. But such missions prove to be cumbersome or impossible for majority.

Just like elite missions rely on specific classes, skills and strategies, they can be considered easy by experienced players. But reality is, majority of players aren't.

Anyone can become a better player. Until now, nobody has been forced to get better, which has been a fundamental design flaw of GW from the beginning. If you can go from the beginning of the game to the end without learning a damn thing, the game is simply too easy, period.

The fact of the matter is that success isn't limited to a dozen people in this case. Many people have passed this mission with ease. A few are even selling runs. You don't even need a real team to beat the mission. Think about that for a moment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

And this takes into consideration the fact that many players there don't know what a balanced team is or how to make one, they don't have the patience, they lack skill unlocks or similar. Soloing with heroes is in many cases impossible, since controlling AI efficiently is even harder than playing with people.

Time to learn.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

This particular mission isn't a test of superiority, it's just a part of primary mission path. The real question here is, is the mission too demanding for this purpose, especially considering other missions before are a whole factor easier and can, for most part, be overcome with brute force.

The fact that the rest of the game can be overcome by brute force is the design flaw. Again, if the game doesn't force you to get better, the game is too easy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

How many understand the difference between longbox and shortbow?
What is hugging the wall?
What is agro circle?
What is chain lightning and why does it wipe my team?
How do interrupts work, how often, how many targets? How will you know that if you never played a ranger?
Why do Shiroken hurt so much?
How far back do you position heros?
When and how will Shiroken spawn?

You just listed so many tactics and strategies that it takes a very experienced player to put this into practice.

Most of that is extremely basic stuff you should have learned on the way to this mission. Again, the flaw in game design is that you never *needed* to know before now, and suddenly it matters. But honestly, can there really be people who can't figure out what the aggro circle is? What hugging the wall is? Why do Shiro'Ken hurt so much? Can you be serious?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

This isn't about whether mechanics are wrong, or mission design is wrong. It's about the fact that people perceive this mission as unfun and frustrating. Just like they did THK, and perhaps a few others.

A lot of people find anything that presents any sort of difficulty to be unfun and frustrating. A lot of people go into a game thinking that everything should just be handed to them for free ("I paid for the game, I deserve all of the content! Why should I have to work for it?!?"). Listening to these people, you'd think the best game in the world was where every enemy was a treasure chest that dropped a perfect gold item everytime you hit it.

Do you ever wonder why PuGs get no respect? Or why PvE in general gets no respect? Because everytime anything is even remotely hard, people whine about it and Anet 'fixes' it. The PvE aspect of GW doesn't force anyone to get better because it isn't at all challenging, so the newbies straight out of Ascalon could end up at THK with no knowledge of how to actually play the game.

If you can't see a flaw in that, then I honestly don't know what to tell you.

justadude · Nov 14, 2006, 06:41 PM // 18:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Surprisingly, this would be a good thing, that would lead to no terror missions.

Shiro and Lich are so "difficult", because they are exact opposite of anything encountered before.

The only design problem with the mission is, that the game doesn't prepare you for it. The strategies for defeating it were listed many times. Yet all those strategies are completely optional in previous missions.

In factions, the players at least experienced sliver armor, which is very similar in effect to IO spike. The only place in NF where I encountered such spikes (apart from half dozen bowmen) is Shiro.

If there were bosses with similar skills on previous missions, this mission would seem much simpler to many.

This is very true. What also underlines this is the fact that skills from other chapters have become requirements for getting into a group. It is a radical turn from anything in the game.

Antheus · Nov 14, 2006, 06:52 PM // 18:52

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Most of that is extremely basic stuff you should have learned on the way to this mission. Again, the flaw in game design is that you never *needed* to know before now, and suddenly it matters. But honestly, can there really be people who can't figure out what the aggro circle is? What hugging the wall is? Why do Shiro'Ken hurt so much? Can you be serious?

Well, that was my point.

You consider only GvG challenging. This essentially puts you out of the picture of PvE stroryline aspects, since for you they are irrelevant. I won't go into the horror I encountered when I joined top 100 ranked guild group in the deep. It was the worst team play and skill use I've encountered in a year, we never made it past 3rd room, after the same players started going afk, rage quitting, and spewing profanities over TS. So this again, means nothing.

The game doesn't progress linearly to teach the concepts. It gives easy missions up to the last two missions. At which point, many inexperienced players find themselves overwhealmed.

The agro happy wammo with mending and healing breeze is not a myth. It's just a very basic strategy which gets you up until a certain point. This applies to all classes. In NF, all missions except last two can be done more or less with any build. But when faced with last two missions, they turn out unbalanced, since they, for the first time, require too many advanced concepts.

That is the only issue here.

justadude · Nov 14, 2006, 06:54 PM // 18:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

Glint is a joke.

You must be laughing pretty hard by now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

You specifically stated that the challenge of Guild Wars is to withstand tedium. Regardless of whether you were expanding on my definition, if this is what you think then it isn't really a game anymore - it's a chore.

You did not get it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

GvG.

Yes, pvp does hone a lot of skills and I have learned a lot from pvper who put aside their elitism and imparted with patience some tactics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rera

...

Generally I get the impression that you cant view this from the other side. Things seem to have to be the way you see them. You expect others to be like you in all regards, or at least live by the same standards. I am sorry I do not view Guild wars the way you do. I do not like pvp and that is allowed. I believe elite style missions are fun but should be optional in the storyline or like the warren and the deep. And that is fine too.

Mai · Nov 14, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Antheus

Yes, it is too hard to do.

How many understand the difference between longbox and shortbow?
What is hugging the wall?
What is agro circle?
What is chain lightning and why does it wipe my team?
How do interrupts work, how often, how many targets? How will you know that if you never played a ranger?
Why do Shiroken hurt so much?
How far back do you position heros?
When and how will Shiroken spawn?

You just listed so many tactics and strategies that it takes a very experienced player to put this into practice.

Completely false. Your average player should know most or all these things. It is pointed out in the tutorials about aggroing and the circle if you paid any attention to it at all. Everything else should be learned as you play the game unless your one of those people that want everything hand fed to them. It's called game experience and by the time you reach this mission the player should have a basic understanding of all these things.

justadude · Nov 14, 2006, 06:56 PM // 18:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by YunSooJin

I'm the kind of terrible person that won't even help people in my gvg guild. I've done enough PvE that I am honestly not willing to do more than I absolutely must (absolutely must mostly referring to selfish goals only). The only exceptions to this rule is a few personal friends that always help me (that have help worth offering) and I do in return. So - no offense, but I'll pass on this one.

*gasp* I never would have figure you to b the way you describe yourself. OMG! Boy, am I ever surprised by this...

lol, I figured you would drop the ball on this. It's what your type does. I guess the challenge was too much for you. Take care.